Welcome
Welcome to spanishhelp

ATTENTION! PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU SIGN UP!!!
WARNING: this site's legitimate sign-up process does NOT ask you for any personal information, such as phone numbers, ID numbers, or bank accounts! It only has 5 mandatory fields. Do not be fooled by malicious ads that may pose as this forum's signup page!! DO NOT GIVE YOUR CELL NUMBER OR ANY OTHER PERSONAL INFORMATION!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!

ATTENTION! PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU SIGN UP!!!
WARNING: this site's legitimate sign-up process does NOT ask you for any personal information, such as phone numbers, ID numbers, or bank accounts! It only has 5 mandatory fields. Do not be fooled by malicious ads that may pose as this forum's signup page!! DO NOT GIVE YOUR CELL NUMBER OR ANY OTHER PERSONAL INFORMATION!

Why do you learn Spanish?

Forum rules

About Culture and Travel - Sobre Viajes y Cultura


Discuss books, music, sports, food, and travels.
Discusiones sobre libros, música, deportes, comida y viajes.
Click Here to Read the Forum's General Rules

Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby jbionic » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:51 pm

I am sure this question must have been raisen on this forum many times directly or indirectly. I have my own answer to that question, which I am ready to share later too. However I am curious to find out what motivates other people. :-)

jbionic has been thanked by:
jbionic
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 12:57 pm
Location: Milky Way
Has thanked: 228 time
Have thanks: 112 time
native_language: Russian
English Proficiency: 3
Spanish Proficiency: 1
Reputation: 200

 

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby stadt » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:27 pm

Apparently I wrote this 4 1/2 years ago on a different site.

http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/168274/why-did-you-start-learning-spanish-and-why

I have always wanted to speak a second language, but never had time in my life before. I actually had collected a few German and Spanish text books a number of years ago, recognizing that I wanted to learn one some day. I truly am bothered by people who tell other people to learn a language and yet have made no attempt to do so themselves (I could go on about this subject for a while). I also think anyone who wants to consider themselves to have a broad-based education should know a second language.

This incipient desire was combined last May with a trip to Mexico in which twice we were in situations where we had to communicate without a common language. This was our second annual trip in what at least for now seems to be an ongoing annual event with our friends. It was not so much a communication barrier- as for instance the cab driver had a clip board with all the likely destinations for anyone to point out where they wanted to go- It was more the hypocrisy of planning to go to a country on a regular basis and expecting them to figure out how to communicate with me.

I am doing this recognizing that language learning is not my strong point (I have frequently said that I am not sure I can even speak one language properly). I also am doing this recognizing that German would be easier for me, as I learned it to some extent in college (at a time when to get a BS in Chemistry at my university you learned German, French or Russian with no other options). Nonetheless the only language that I am liable to use on a regular enough basis to motivate me is Spanish. I find the wonderful people at this site motivate me to continue this quest, even though at times I question as to whether I am truly capable.
I welcome corrections to my Spanish attempts at all times, whether or not the thread is intended for such

stadt has been thanked by:
User avatar
stadt
Royalty
Royalty
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:55 pm
Location: Oregon
Has thanked: 6421 time
Have thanks: 3182 time
native_language: Inglés de los Estados Unidos
English Proficiency: 4
Spanish Proficiency: 2
Reputation: 5853

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby jbionic » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:48 pm

Well done, stadt. Now all the same in Spanish please :-)

jbionic has been thanked by:
jbionic
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 12:57 pm
Location: Milky Way
Has thanked: 228 time
Have thanks: 112 time
native_language: Russian
English Proficiency: 3
Spanish Proficiency: 1
Reputation: 200

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby stadt » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:34 pm

Well done, stadt. Now all the same in Spanish please


I am currently at work, so only have a few minutes here and there, not enough time to do the whole thing, but here is the first paragraph written fairly rapidly (hence probably with some errors):

Siempre he querido ser capaz de hablar en una segunda lengua, pero nunca tuve tiempo antes. De verdad había coleccionado unos pocos libros de texto de alemán y también de español desde hace algunos años, debido a que sabía que querría aprender una algún día. Me molestan los que les dicen a otros que deberían aprender otra idioma pero no han hecho el esfuerzo para hacerlo ellos mismos (podría hablar acerca de este tema por un buen rato). También creo que cualquier persona que quiere quiera creer que tiene una educación de base amplia debería saber una segunda lengua.

Adding the second:

Este deseo naciente se combina con un viaje a México el Mayo pasado durante el que tuvimos que comunicar dos veces sin lengua común. Fue nuestro segundo viaje anual, y parece que vamos a hacer lo mismo todos los años desde de ahora en adelante. No era principalmente la barrera de comunicación- por ejemplo el taxista tuvo una carpeta que contuvo todos los destinos más común en inglés para que alguien pueda indicar el que quisiera- era más la hipocresía de hacer planes de visitar un país con regularidad y de esperar que ellos averigüen cómo comunicarse conmigo.

Final installment:

Lo hago con el entendimiento de que aprender lenguas no es un punto fuerte mío (con frecuencia he dicho que no estoy seguro de que sepa hablar un idioma correctamente). También lo hago con el entendimiento de que aprender alemán sería más fácil para mí, debido a que aprendí algo mientras asistí a la universidad (cuando, para obtener un título de ciencía en química, era necesario aprender alemán, francés o ruso). Sin embargo la única lengua que es probable que yo use con suficiente regularidad que estoy animado a aprenderla es el español. Las personas maravillosas en este sitio me animan a seguir esta meta, aunque a veces me pregunto si soy capaz de esto.
I welcome corrections to my Spanish attempts at all times, whether or not the thread is intended for such

stadt has been thanked by:
User avatar
stadt
Royalty
Royalty
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:55 pm
Location: Oregon
Has thanked: 6421 time
Have thanks: 3182 time
native_language: Inglés de los Estados Unidos
English Proficiency: 4
Spanish Proficiency: 2
Reputation: 5853

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby jbionic » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:59 pm

También creo que cualquier persona que quiere

QuierA, I think. Subjunctive is more appropriate to use, right?

Yes, are there other errors? :thanks Stadt  


Not an error but... todos los años de ahora ...(a correction by someone...of my suggestion...de ahora en adelante [from now on])   qfreed


Thanks Quentin. I wondered the proper way. :thanks Stadt  

jbionic has been thanked by:
jbionic
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 12:57 pm
Location: Milky Way
Has thanked: 228 time
Have thanks: 112 time
native_language: Russian
English Proficiency: 3
Spanish Proficiency: 1
Reputation: 200

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby qfreed » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:44 pm

As for myself, I study Spanish because I am a masochist.

3. A willingness or tendency to subject oneself to unpleasant or trying experiences.


And, of course, if Heidita is doing the corrections, then it is:

2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from being humiliated or mistreated, either by another or by oneself.

qfreed has been thanked by:
User avatar
qfreed
VIP Member
 
Posts: 4838
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:20 pm
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Has thanked: 7758 time
Have thanks: 11847 time
native_language: English
English Proficiency: 4
Spanish Proficiency: 3
Reputation: 6497

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby saffron » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:46 am

También creo que cualquier persona que quiere

My view is that the subjunctive is not used here.
I remember the mnemonic 'VOCES' verdad, obvio, cierto. evidente and seguro - followed by indicativo save when negativo

In other words if stadt had written "No creo que cualquier persona ...' then he would use the subjunctive

As for language learning in our 6th form [age 16] one of the options was to start learning Russian or Spanish. As it was an option sensible people just concentrated on their other subjects but I decided to add Spanish to English, French and History. We had a lovely teacher and I remember going to an open day at a local University that had a course teaching Spanish and listening to a lecture on Quechua. One of our conversation assistants was a lovely man from Montevideo. Now with better communication the world is a smaller place, but then it was all new. One of our neighbours married to an Englishman was from Bilbao.
It made little difference to my life. I got a degree in law went to France a few times but didn't travel much. Many years later with the advent of 'budget airlines' I visited Spain for a long weekend - listened to live flamenco drank 'tinto de verano' and ate tapas. I also realised how very little Spanish I remembered. I then decided to holiday in a Latin American country and went to Peru where I lapped up talks by our guide whose native language was quechua. I decided to start Spanish classes again.
With the internet it is so easy to listen to native speech.
I have always loved words but now I feel enriched by listening to music in Spanish and reading books in Spanish. It is fascinating to read how an event is reported in another country.
I am from a country that has given so much to the rest of the world culturally and linguistically but I consider being able to learn and understand about other cultures influenced by Spanish makes my life so much more interesting. I remember going to China for a holiday and feeling diminished as I could not read or understand Mandarin.
My brother spent time working in Thailand as an engineer and spent time learning Thai which is a tonal language someone else I know has spent years working in Kazakhstan and is now fluent in Russian.
I cannot imagine my life without knowing other languages. I still prefer French music and films to Spanish ones. I could easily live my life only speaking English but it seems to me to be arrogant. When you learn a language you also learn about a culture and a way of life.

In England it is now more usual to teach Spanish rather than French but it is still rare to teach Chinese Russian or Arabic. In large cities schools increasingly teach children whose first language is not English.

Why did I start Spanish? It was something new in our school - only 8 people in my year started Spanish and it was taught by someone who already taught French and who was a lovely teacher. As I already knew some French and Latin it was not such a struggle.

Maybe I will try and learn another language but I am still enjoying discovering more about the world of Spanish speakers.
corrections welcomed to my Spanish or English

saffron has been thanked by:
saffron
Royalty
Royalty
 
Posts: 2431
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:08 pm
Has thanked: 3846 time
Have thanks: 3980 time
native_language: British English
English Proficiency: 4
Spanish Proficiency: 2
Reputation: 7604

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby jbionic » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:34 am

saffron wrote:
También creo que cualquier persona que quiere

My view is that the subjunctive is not used here.
I remember the mnemonic 'VOCES' verdad, obvio, cierto. evidente and seguro - followed by indicativo save when negativo


I usually end up googling to verify my guesses. GoogleSearch produces 313,000 instances of use of "cualquier persona que quiere", and slightly more, 357,000 instances of "cualquier persona que quiera". In my view, the subjunctive is more appropriate because the sentence refers to a particular type of persons with a particular type of stereotypes and wishes, to any of them of this kind.

jbionic has been thanked by:
jbionic
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 12:57 pm
Location: Milky Way
Has thanked: 228 time
Have thanks: 112 time
native_language: Russian
English Proficiency: 3
Spanish Proficiency: 1
Reputation: 200

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby jbionic » Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:36 am

Well, as for me there have been some cultural incentives, but also there has been a period in my life when I was surrounded by a couple of folks whose 3rd or 4th language was Spanish, which certainly affected my self-esteem as my only foreign language was English at that time.

I am also very curious about economic and demographic reality we live in. So I know that Spanish language is spoken as widely as English in terms of total number of speakers. But unlike English, which is more often the second language for its speakers, Spanish is predominantly spoken as 1st or native language. In fact, according to UN data, by 2050 the population of Latin America will increase from current 604 mln. to 767 million., i.e. by 27%., while Europe's population, for instance, will drop from current 742 to 632 mln. (mainly due to Eastern Europe). Even though a third of that number for Latin America comes from Brazil, where Portuguese is spoken, it is still a very impressive projection. Now one may cast a doubt on whether the UN projection is feasible, as noone really knows where it comes from, who is behind the figures, after all life brings its own adjustments. But one thing that makes me believe it is not far from being true is the fact that literacy rates are still somewhat lower for Latin America than for the rest of the developed world. It is a well known socio-demographic fact that women tend to have more children in the lack of access to education. So Latin America seems to have better prospects for population growth in this sense. Yet another important factor that makes me believe the projection is the fact that Spanish-speaking world seems to be distant from current 3 global conflicts.

Now if one turns to labor market statistics, lets say for Russia and the US, and I am talking here about the number of jobs that specify the requirements for knowledge of foreign languages, then one may find it interesting to learn that in today's Russia Spanish is 5-7 times less demanded by employers than German (not to mention English), although in terms of number of speakers worldwide Spanish is 4.5 times more spoken than German. But this is due to some historic peculiarities of Russia's trading relations, which completely disregard the demographic factor. In the United States the picture is quite the opposite. Spanish language is more in demand there than French, and miles ahead of German (which may seem bizarre, since ethnically the US has more folks that are descendent from German-speaking countries of Europe, esp. from Germany, not England). The figures I quote here are still very representative of the direction of countries' economic drift. The US accounts for 50% of Mexico's import, and the trading turnover of Mexico alone is so high that even Spain (as former colonial metropolis and once the richest country of the world in silver and gold) is now lagging behind Mexico in terms of volume of FX reserves.

jbionic has been thanked by:
jbionic
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 12:57 pm
Location: Milky Way
Has thanked: 228 time
Have thanks: 112 time
native_language: Russian
English Proficiency: 3
Spanish Proficiency: 1
Reputation: 200

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby stadt » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:49 pm

Re the quiere vs. quiera.

I wrote this rapidly, with not much time to think or consider grammar points, this was not something I pondered on, much rawer.

I immediately agreed with jbionic.

I am refering to a hypothetical person- the cualquier makes it so, and using an adjectival que clause to describe that person-an adjectival clause describing a hypothetical antecedent would seem to me to demand subjunctive. It has nothing to do with the verb that precedes that- creer que actually in the sentence controls debería- creo que él debería- where él=cualquier persona que quiere quiera creer que tiene una educación de base amplia. How jbionic found almost as many phrases not using it I don't know, I recognized the error immediately when pointed out. Just like the gender and orthografic errors I still make from time to time that Quentin subtely fixes for me (he only points out the ones that he thinks might be a knowledge deficit).

The only question that I would have would be does tiene in that phrase work, or should it be tenga- that I don't know- the querer tener when we have established a hypothetical person is beyond me. :shrug:

I make errors that are from lack of knowledge, but I also make plenty where I immediately recognize that I did something I know better than when pointed out.
I welcome corrections to my Spanish attempts at all times, whether or not the thread is intended for such
User avatar
stadt
Royalty
Royalty
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:55 pm
Location: Oregon
Has thanked: 6421 time
Have thanks: 3182 time
native_language: Inglés de los Estados Unidos
English Proficiency: 4
Spanish Proficiency: 2
Reputation: 5853

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby jbionic » Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:06 pm

averigüen


what is the general rule to decide when to put 2 dots above the u, and how is the word to be pronounced?
jbionic
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 12:57 pm
Location: Milky Way
Has thanked: 228 time
Have thanks: 112 time
native_language: Russian
English Proficiency: 3
Spanish Proficiency: 1
Reputation: 200

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby Pesta » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:05 pm

jbionic wrote:
averigüen


what is the general rule to decide when to put 2 dots above the u, and how is the word to be pronounced?

A simple explanation is here: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 919AAhbVwf

G + U + E = you don't pronounce the U. That happens in "guerra"
G + U + I = the same thing. For example, "águila"
G + U + A/O/ = you pronounce the two vowels, "agua"

If you don't write the U, "Gerra" would sound like "Jerra" (taking the spanish pronounciation of the J)

If you want the U between G and E/I to sound, you write two points in the top of the U, like this: ü That is called DIÉRESIS. For example: "pingüino" (which sounds close to "penguin")

Briefly, whenever you have ü, you pronounce the u like a Spanish u. This is used to alter the situation where the u would be normally silent. The letter u is frequently silent when it follows "g", where it serves to define the "hard" sound for "g".

Pesta has been thanked by:
User avatar
Pesta
Mod
Mod
 
Posts: 5880
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:57 am
Location: Philadelphia
Has thanked: 19824 time
Have thanks: 14422 time
native_language: English
English Proficiency: 4
Spanish Proficiency: 2
Reputation: 16419

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby qfreed » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:20 pm

Jbionic wrote:I usually end up googling to verify my guesses. GoogleSearch produces 313,000 instances of use of "cualquier persona que quiere", and slightly more, 357,000 instances of "cualquier persona que quiera". In my view, the subjunctive is more appropriate because the sentence refers to a particular type of persons with a particular type of stereotypes and wishes, to any of them of this kind.



That sounds more like an explanation of why you would use the indicative mood. If you are referring to definite, real people (existent) rather than indefinite, hypothetical (possibly non-existent) then you would use the indicative mood. (e.g. any of those people (real) that want to vote no...) rather than...e.g. any person (if one exists) that wants to vote no....

Note the post above where Stadt says that he agrees that the subjunctive was the mood that he wanted because he was referring to a hypothetical (possibly non-existent) person. That does not sound to me like the reasoning that you were providing for choosing the subjunctive mood.

qfreed has been thanked by:
User avatar
qfreed
VIP Member
 
Posts: 4838
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:20 pm
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Has thanked: 7758 time
Have thanks: 11847 time
native_language: English
English Proficiency: 4
Spanish Proficiency: 3
Reputation: 6497

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby Heidita » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:07 am

jbionic wrote:Well, as for me there have been some cultural incentives, but also there has been a period in my life when I was surrounded by a couple of folks whose 3rd or 4th language was Spanish, which certainly affected my self-esteem as my only foreign language was English at that time.

I am also very curious about economic and demographic reality we are in. So I know that Spanish language is as widely spoken as English in terms of number of speakers. In fact, according to UN data, by 2050 the population of Latin America will increase from current 604 mln. to 767 million., i.e. by 27%., while Europe's population, for instance, will drop from current 742 to 632 mln. (mainly due to Eastern Europe). Even though a third of that number for Latin America comes from Brazil, where Portuguese is spoken, it is still a very impressive projection. Now one may cast a doubt on whether the UN projection is feasible, as noone really knows where it comes from, who is behind the figures, after all life brings its own adjustments. But the thing that makes me believe it is not far from being true is the fact that literacy rates are still somewhat lower for Latin America than for the rest of the developed world. It is a well known socio-demographic fact that women tend to have more children in the absense of access to education. So Latin America seems to have better prospects for population growth in this sense.

Now if one turns to labor market statistics, lets say for Russia and the US, and I am talking here about the number of jobs that specify the requirements for knowledge of foreign languages, then one may find it interesting to find out that in today's Russia Spanish is 5-7 times less demanded by employers than German (not to mention English), although in terms of number of speakers worldwide Spanish is 4.5 times more spoken than German. But this is due to some historic peculiarities of Russia's trading relations, which completely disregard the demographic factor. In the United States the picture is quite the opposite. Spanish language is more in demand there than French, and miles ahead of German (which may seem bizarre, since ethnically the US has more folks that originally came from German-speaking countries of Europe). The figures I quote here are still very representative of the direction of countries' economic drift. The US accounts for 50% of Mexico's import, and the trading turnover of Mexico alone is so high that even Spain (as former colonial metropolis and once the richest country of the world in silver and gold) is now lagging behind Mexico in terms of volume of FX reserves.


Bien, y ahora en español :w: :w: :w:
I appreciate all English corrections, especially on style! :)
Best movies: http://forum.tvfreeload.org/

Heidita has been thanked by:
User avatar
Heidita
Shogun
Shogun
 
Posts: 7615
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:34 pm
Has thanked: 11323 time
Have thanks: 13184 time
native_language: SPANISH
English Proficiency: 4
Spanish Proficiency: 4
Reputation: 13291

Re: Why do you learn Spanish?

Postby Heidita » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:08 am

Al final Stadt fue el único valiente que lo ha puesto en español todo.

Tenía razón Saffron: yo usaría cualquiere que quiere...

...cualquiere???   qfreed
I appreciate all English corrections, especially on style! :)
Best movies: http://forum.tvfreeload.org/

Heidita has been thanked by:
User avatar
Heidita
Shogun
Shogun
 
Posts: 7615
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:34 pm
Has thanked: 11323 time
Have thanks: 13184 time
native_language: SPANISH
English Proficiency: 4
Spanish Proficiency: 4
Reputation: 13291

Next

Return to Culture and Travel / Viajes y Cultura

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
suspicion-preferred